Else Bos: ‘Creating space for real dialogue is at the basis of the advisory role’

It is often said that DNB, as a supervisory body, is mainly focused on eliminating risks, and thus puts a brake on entrepreneurship. Do you share that view?
‘In principle, legislation and regulations should not stand in the way of entrepreneurship, but at the same time rules are needed to prevent undesirable behaviour. That is the dilemma. For example, all the information and transparency that is now being requested around sustainability results in a tremendous amount of work and data. It is a question whether all of that is in fact necessary and useful. I see it as a positive development that a countermovement is now emerging which is evaluating whether we can have a more pragmatic approach with less emphasis on reporting per se and more focus on what sustainability means and how companies can play a role in this. Ultimately, to me, sustainability is about the durability of your philosophy, your strategy and your product.
My experience was that the focus at DNB is not primarily on eliminating all risks, but rather on knowing the risks, understanding them and knowing how to deal with it. It is about taking risks in a sensible way, but also about identifying opportunities. Parties that were the first to enter wind and solar energy years ago have seized opportunities and are now profiting from them. As central supervisor, you acknowledge the importance of companies being agile enough to be able to move with what is happening in the outside world.’

What do you expect from the Trump effect in that respect? Will it lead to better cooperation in Europe?
‘To be honest, I do not think that anyone knows. It certainly causes us to think about how we do things in Europe and whether that is the best way, but I have yet to see whether it will lead to changes. Take the financial sector. There, both legislation and regulations as well as digitalisation are creating enormous pressure on and costs for financial institutions. That asks for consolidation but, in practice, consolidating in the European banking sector is not particularly well received. Not because the bankers or their boards necessarily object to it, but because there is resistance from the national political arena. While everyone, I think, by now realizes that Europe could use a limited number of large, robust players.
In general, it is imperative to be vigilant now. Companies must continue to think about the possible consequences of geopolitical events and ask themselves whether they are sufficiently prepared for them. That requires a considerable level of agility. You really cannot focus on a single path. Thinking in scenarios is more important than ever.'

Before joining DNB, you always held supervisory positions in addition to management positions. Do you agree with supervisory members who believe that the workload has increased almost too much to accommodate this, partly due to the increase in rules and legislation?
‘Someone who thinks that underestimated the supervisory role in the past, probably. The supervisory position has certainly become far more serious than it was 20 years ago, but this has been a gradual process. We have had the corporate governance code for more than 20 years. Of course, it remains important to find a good balance.’

You were responsible for digital strategy at DNB. Technology and digitalization can be a difficult subject for supervisory boards, because it is a broad theme, and not all aspects are equally relevant to every company. Is there a smart way to address this subject?
‘You should always look at both risks and opportunities. By risks, I do not only mean cybersecurity, but especially whether, for example, your competitors are moving faster, and you are therefore in danger of missing the boat. And vice versa: what opportunities does technology offer for your company and business operations? A solid IT department is not enough. What is important is for users to discover and understand how technology can be utilized to make their work more efficient or, for example, to develop new products. The supervisory board should also think about this.
Bos thinks digitalisation should be an essential element of the permanent education of supervisory boards. At Van Lanschot Kempen, for example, we are investigating the possibility of the supervisory board undergoing external training in AI, in addition to the training provided by the company itself. We all must, ultimately, delve into it and get a feel for what it can mean for our company or our sector. I find my position as non-executive at software company Ortec Finance also valuable in that respect. It gives me a completely different insight into what technology can mean, and I then take that with me into my other roles.’

In addition to the supervisory role, the supervisory board is also an employer of and advisor to the board. Do supervisory boards have enough time for their advisory role?
‘I think so, provided you schedule enough time for it. The basis for the advisory role, in my opinion, is to create the room to have a real dialogue with each other. Whether it concerns sustainability, competition, communication strategy, people, or culture… dilemmas can arise in all these areas and the solutions are often not black and white. I think being able to discuss these dilemmas with the board is an important function of the supervisory board and serves as a yardstick for the openness between members of the executive board and the supervisory board. It is invaluable if that succeeds. At the same time, you need to be alert to your role as advisor in that dialogue and not fall into the trap of stepping into the role of executive.’

How do you fulfil the employer role as member of the supervisory board?
‘My impression is that this task is sometimes overly associated with the responsibility for the succession of the executive board and the associated assessments of its members. I find it important to also pay attention to what members of the executive board are experiencing. Are they not, for example, lonely in their role? In addition, sufficient attention must be given to the interaction between the various board members and to their personal development. As a member of the supervisory board, you will have to take the time to also get to know the people beyond the management level in the organisation, to get an understanding of the mutual relationships and the effect of these on the various levels of the company. You can approach this in several ways. I recently participated in a crisis management exercise with a large group of people at Van Lanschot Kempen, for example. I, as supervisor, found it enormously valuable to see how the people work together and respond to each other. It provided a far better insight than one-on-one conversations. I went home re-energized after that session.’

Ten years ago, there was a trend to appoint generalists in supervisory boards. Then came the trend towards specialists. Now, the range of tasks is so broad that people are looking for people with multiple skills, who on the one hand can contribute to everything but at the same time have in-depth knowledge in a number of areas. What does a balanced supervisory board look like in your opinion?
‘It is crucial that the various members have complementary skills in order to be able to cover the breadth of the range of tasks. However, for me, the way in which a supervisory board works together is at least as important as the diversity of skills. Can you complement and challenge each other on a vision or opinion? Do you listen carefully and build on each other’s arguments instead of all insisting on having their own say? Can you accept that discussions can sometimes become heated and is there sufficient openness to explicitly discuss it? You cannot have good governance if you cannot talk about the mutual interaction with each other.'

Since leaving DNB, you have been building up a portfolio of supervisory board memberships. How do you determine your choice in this?
'I was on the Corporate Governance Code Monitoring Committee that rewrote the 2022 code. We then introduced the concept of long-term value creation. I strongly believe in that. It does not make sense for anyone to do things in the short term that destroy value in the long term. This is significant to me when I make my choices.
On a more personal level, I want to develop broadly, and I like to step outside my comfort zone a little. In terms of the latter, after leaving DNB, I wanted to do something international in any case, because when you encounter different cultures and different ways of working, you start to look at things differently yourself. Hence my position as non-executive at the Australian IFM Investors. I am also a member of the supervisory board of the Dutch National Opera & Ballet Fund, which adds another valuable dimension. And finally, for me, the click with people is a prerequisite. I flourish when I feel welcome, when people are curious about my contribution and we share the same values. Van Lanschot Kempen, for example, sees itself as large enough to cope – large enough to deal with all the regulations and IT – and small enough to care. That resonates well with me.’

You now are member of three supervisory boards. Is there anything else on your wish list?
‘I would want to broaden my horizons to a supervisory board outside the financial sector. A company in the manufacturing industry seems interesting because of the physical tangibility of the product. I also find the hospitality sector intriguing because I like to travel and often wonder whether things could not be done differently. In practice, it turns out that it is not that easy to find something outside the financial sector if that is where your experience is concentrated. Personally, with my financial background, I think that I can contribute something at any company. Many elements of governance, such as behaviour and culture, are also universally relevant.’

What do you always take with you to your role as supervisory board member? What can people expect when you get appointed somewhere?
‘There are three concepts that I find important. I already mentioned dialogue. In addition, I find outside in an important theme. And finally, believe in asking questions to check: do I really understand it? Do I think it is correct? What does that mean? And what do I think about it? That is how I always approach this role. I also bring a financial and sustainability profile, and I am alert to digitalization. A company will always get something from the person, and something from the content... that is what characterizes me.'

This interview was published in Management Scope 03 2025.